29 April 2015

NORTH



north - english, scottish
norður - icelandic, faroese
nord - danish, norse, swedish, german
noord - dutch
noard - frisian

Varieties in the OLB

NORTHESKA - nordic (plur.) - fragment nr. 1
NORTHLIKA - northern - 3,5ab,11
NORTHLIKSTE - northernmost - 2
NORTH.ENDE - north end - 4,12
NORTHWARD - northwards - 6,8,13
UT.ET NORTHA - from the north - 7
NORTH.LÁND - Northland (Scandinavia) - 9
NORTH.LJUD - Norsemen - 10
NORTH BRITTANJA - North-Brittania - 14

 
OLB fragments with translations by Ottema and Sandbach


1 [p.054/ will add line nrs. later]
THÁ THA NORTHESKA BROTHAR RA SELVA BY.M FOGATH HÉDE
Toen de noordsche broeders zich bij elkander [hem] gevoegd hadden
When the northern brothers met together [had joined him]

2 [060]
INNER NORTHLIKSTE HERNE FON THA MIDDEL.SÉ
In de noordelijkste hoek van de Middellandsche zee
In the northernmost part [corner] of the Mediterranean

3 [067]
(...) LÉT HJU INET NORTHLIKA BERCH.LAND ÉNE BURCH BVWA
(...) liet zij in het noordelijke bergland een burgt bouwen
She built herself a citadel on the high land to the north

4 [106]
MIN BURCH LÉID AN.T NORTH.ENDE THÉRE LJUD.GÁRDA
Mijne burgt ligt aan ’t noordeinde van de Liudgaarde
My city lies near the north end of the Liudgaarde

5 [106]
TWISK THA NORTH.LIKA HUSA IS ALLÉNA FJELD. ~
THA THRJU NORTH.LIKA HUSA SEND FOL KÉREN ÀND ÔTHER BIHOF.

Tusschen de noordelijke huizen is alleen veld.
De drie noordelijke huizen zijn vol koorn en andere benoodigdheden.
Among the houses on the north side there are only fields.
The three houses on the north are full of corn and other necessaries


6 [115]
BY T.ANFANG THERE ARNE MÔNATH
NIGADE JRTHA NORTHWARD

Bij den aanvang van Arnemaand (oogstmaand)
neigde de aarde noordwaarts
At the beginning of the Arnemaand (harvest month)
the earth bowed towards the north


7 [116]
IN SELLA MÔNATH KÉM STORNE.WIND UT.ET NORTHA WÉI
In Sellemaand (sprokkelmaand) kwam stormwind uit het noorden weg
In Sellemaand (Sprokkelmaand, February) there were storms of wind from the north

8 [116]
MEN AL ET LÁND THET NORTHWARD LÉID HÉDE WÉRE VNDER SÉ
Maar al het land dat noordwaarts gelegen had, was onder de zee
but all the land to the north was sunk under the sea


9 [130]
THIT SKRIFT IS MY OWER NORTH.LÁND JEFTA SKÉNLAND JÉVEN
Dit geschrift is mij over Noordland of Schoonland gegeven
This Writing has been given to me about Northland

10 [131]
SONT KOMATH THA GODA NORTH.LJUD VÁKEN TO TEXLAND 
VMB THERE MODERIS RÉD
Sedert dien tijd komen de goede Noormannen dikwijls op Texland
om raad van de Moeder
Since that time the good Northmen come often to Texland 
for the advice of the mother

11 [143]
THA NORTH.LIKA LJUD.GÁRDNE SEND THRVCH THENE SALTA SÉ BIDELVEN
de noordelijke Liudgaarden zijn door de zoute zee bedolven
the north Liudgaarden are still concealed by the salt sea

12 [198]
AN.T NORTH.ENDE FON BRITANJA THÀT FVL MITH HÁGA BERGUN IS
Aan het noordeinde van Brittannia dat vol met hooge bergen is
In the north part of Britain [that is full of high mountains]

13 [200]
ALLE LANDA THÉR SÛDWARD WESTWÁRD ÀND NORTHWARD LIDSA
alle landen die zuidwaarts, westwaarts en noordwaarts liggen
all the countries lying to the south, the west, and the north

14 [200]
DÁNÁ SIND THUSANDA GOLA NÉI NORTH BRITTANJA BRIT
daarop zijn duizende Golen naar Noordbrittannia getogen
[after that thousands of Gauls were brought to] North Britain

11 April 2015

Forum #45 (4 jan. - 2 apr. 2015)

see post 10 March

 4 January: see blog post: SWÍGA - to keep silent, to not speak
14 January: see blog post: SWIKA ~ to swing, sway, swift, etc.


Posted 19 January 2015 - 11:58 AM
Just a fun-fact:
Disney's Atlantis (2001) used the 'Fryan' letter "A":





Posted 24 January 2015 - 11:06 AM
View PostAbramelin, on 23 January 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:
FOT [...] still has nothing to do with [...] "fout" in Dutch.
How can you be so sure?


25 January: new video part 4b in four languages, see here
11 February: see blog post SWART, BRUN ~ black, swarthy, sordid, brown
19 February: see blog post STÉN ~ stone, brick, rock, gem


Posted 28 February 2015 - 04:54 PM
View PostAbramelin, on 26 February 2015 - 06:32 PM, said:
FOT would be more correct (Volney's "Les Ruines"), but it still has nothing to do with "false", or "fout" in Dutch.
FOT is the name the Chinese and/or Tibetans used for Buddha.... or BODdhisatva. And even BODdhisatva doesn't mean "false"...

If you can proove that "Boddhisatva" means "false", you have a point, but you'll have a hard time trying.
"Boddhisatva" does not have to mean "false", for FO or FOT to mean "false" or "fout".

Can you prove FOT has nothing to do with Dutch "fout"?

Posted 28 February 2015 - 09:06 PM
View PostVan Gorp, on 07 February 2015 - 06:44 AM, said:
[...] i still wonder how on earth Hidde could have related his years of living and writing with the timeline according Altland sank (1256 after Christ=3349 after Altland).
Following the note of Liko some 450 years earlier, that connection could not be derived.
Good point.
Two possible explanations:
- Liko did not know the Atland year numbering system, but his descendant Hidde did, later (through other sources).
or:
- Liko did not mention the Atland system, because in his time it was still so common that he did not feel he needed to, but Hidde later added it because it became less used.

Posted 02 March 2015 - 12:53 PM
View PostThe Puzzler, on 11 February 2015 - 06:06 AM, said:
This article is from 2010 but adds more weight to the idea that the North Sea area was indeed a vast community of sailors with trade and movements going on...
Nice proof of early trade indeed, but interesting how the archaeologists assume so much, for example:
- That the tin was brought to Britain instead of from.
- That the ship was rowed not sailed, although no remains of the ship were left.

Posted 04 March 2015 - 10:32 PM
Another OLB word explained:

[004/04] (Adela's speech)
IK WÉT WEL THÀT J THÉRMITHA ANDA BRVD SITTE

Ottema (1872):
Ik weet wel dat gij daarmede aan den grond zit (aground, stuck)

Sandbach (1876):
I know that you are in a difficulty about it

Wirth (1933):
Ich weiß wohl, daß ihr damit in der Verlegenheit seid (embarrassment, perplexity, quandary, awkwardness)

Jensma (2006; added in footnote that source was unknown and that he translated it based on context):
Ik weet wel dat u daarmee in de penarie zit (perplexity, abashment, embarrassment)

Woordenboek der Nederlandsche Taal (WNT):
bruid ook BRUIT, en in verbogen vorm BRUITE, znw. vr. (?); mv. bruiten. Een woord dat reeds in de middeleeuwen, in Brabant, voorkomt (...), en dat zeker wel verwant is met Brui en een of meer der ald. genoemde woorden. Denkelijk zijn de onderstaande bett. ontstaan uit eene meer algemeene: draf, vuile vloeistof, poespas, wellicht: water waarin iets gekookt, waarmede iets klaargemaakt is; (...)
1. Draf, spoeling, varkensvoeder.
(liquid pigfood of leavings)
2. Vloeibare beer, menschendrek (liquid muck, human dung)
3. In de haringvisscherij (...) vuile pekel (in herring fishery: dirty brine)

So, a translation closer to the original meaning would be, as we say:

"... you are in (deep) shit with that" (situation)
Most likely related dutch words:
brui, verbruien (mess, mess up, waste)
prut, verprutsen (mudd, mess up, waste)

(prithvi in sanskrit is earth, soil - possibly related)

Fragments with the verb and words derived from it:

THRVCH WAN.KÉTHINGA WISTON HJA ALLE TO WISA ÀND TO VRBRUDA

HWA FON VS FOLK THÉR.ET ALSA ÀRG VRBRUD HÉDE

THÀT VRBRÛDE ÀND VRBASTERDE SLACHT

HJA NILDE NAVT BIGRIPPA THAT HJARA SÉDE VRBRÛDE KOSTE

THJU TÁLE THÉRA ÁST.SKÉN.LANDAR IS THRVCH THA WLA MAGJARA VRBRÛD

VRBRÛDING VSRA RÉNE TÁLE

VSA VRBRUDA BROTHARUM ÀND HJARA SALT.ÁTHUM

THA JUTTAR WÉRON SUNT LÔNG VRBRUD

MITH HULPE FON THA VRBRÛDA FÁMNA

THA HÉMNISSA FON HJARA VRBRUDA LÉRE

Also related the verb "brouwen": to make soup, beer or cook anything somehow liquid.

LOL official ('scientific') dutch etymologists have no clue.

They think the word "prut" is derived from the sound a porridge makes when it cooks or something falls into it... (I'm not kidding!).


Quote
Klanknabootsing van het geluid dat een weke massa of brij kan maken als die gist of kookt, als er iets in valt, enz.; de oorspr. betekenis is dus wrsch. ‘substantie die het geluid prut kan voortbrengen’.
http://www.etymologi.../trefwoord/prut

=> "so the original meaning is probably a substance that can produce the sound prut"

...?!


Posted 06 March 2015 - 07:35 AM
View PostAbramelin, on 05 March 2015 - 04:04 PM, said:
... as long as it isn't (modern) French
Why would modern (spoken) French not be similar to the old 'French' of the 6th C. BCE?
And if it was, the Fryas may well have known much of that language.
What FO/FOT meant to the Fryas (perhaps mockingly), may not have been the same as what it meant to the 'Buddhists' of that time.
Also, the concept of reappropriation (geuzennaam in dutch: people using a name proudly, that was originally mocking) or the other way around (a proud name used mockingly by others) is desceribed at least twice in the OLB: with Kàlta and with the Druids.

I don't need to prove that it was possibly like I said, because I don't claim it was certainly so, and you can't prove it was impossible.

Posted 06 March 2015 - 07:47 AM
View PostVan Gorp, on 05 March 2015 - 07:27 PM, said:
In short, makes the connection with the verb "broddelen" (used also in West and East Flanders) in the meaning of doing sloppy work or even to ruin.
I saw a link to "brothel" (dutch bordeel, french bordel) here, but according to etymology, that comes from borde: farmeres house, wooden cabin

Posted 06 March 2015 - 07:52 AM
View PostVan Gorp, on 05 March 2015 - 07:41 PM, said:
... that the meaning of FOT was known by the priests, but not by the common people afterwards who called the person FOT while paying tribute or feeling sympathy for him.

So that is what OLB says: the priests in Kashmir (later to China) talked a language where FO/FOT has the meaning "FALSE", but in time this meaning is lost in the contemporary languages there.
Why does it still has this meaning in French/Dutch/German/English?
Excellent VG, I totally agree.

Note: fou/ folle in French means mad, wild

OLB: TO, JO has in english become "to you" (same sound, in dutch "oe", german "u"), so FO may have sounded not like "faux", but more like "fou"?) ... Kung Fu?!

Posted 06 March 2015 - 11:27 AM
The website of Tresoar, the archive that guards the OLB, www.oeralindaboek.nl, finally has a new functionality for browsing through copies of the original pages: http://images.tresoar.nl/OLB/

The resolution is not very good.


Posted 06 March 2015 - 05:57 PM
View Postflashman7870, on 06 March 2015 - 03:49 PM, said:
Because French didn't exist prior to the middle ages. Prior to Roman and Frankish occupation they spoke Gaullish.
That's why I wrote 'French'.
There's no reason to assume that spoken 'Gaulish' is so much more different from modern French, than Oldfrisian differs from the Dutch-Frisian-Flemmish dialects.

Posted 06 March 2015 - 06:20 PM
View PostAbramelin, on 06 March 2015 - 05:58 PM, said:
It's too much of a coincidence that C. over de Linden had that book in his possession...
Not at all. He was interested in anything that could confirm what was in his manuscript. How do you know he had it before Ottema made his translation?

Quote
I also said that the creators of the OLB using FO instead of FOT was not a slip of the pen, but a hint.
How could you possibly know?

Quote
FO/FAUX does indeed mean 'false' in French, a language - like you already said - that didn't even exist around the time the OLB was supposedly  put onto paper.
The language did not exist under that name, but was not invented at the moment they started using that name.

8 March see blog post STEMLÉTH ~ stammer


Posted 10 March 2015 - 06:56 PM
[062/08]
563 JÉR NÉI ALD.LAND SVNKEN IS. SAT HIR EN WITE BURCH.FÁM.
MIN.ERVA WAS HIRA NÔMA. THRVCH THA STJÛRAR NY.HEL.LÉNJA TONÔMATH.
THIS TONÔMA WAS GOD KÉREN.
HWAND THA RÉD THÉR HJU LÉNADE WAS NY ÀND HEL BVPPA ALLE ÔTHERUM.
563 Years after Aldland sank, a wise/ white burchfám resided here.
Min-erva was her name, surnamed Ny-hel-lénja by the steersmen.
This name was well chosen,
because the rede she lended (lénade) was new (ny) and bright (hel), superior to all others.

Inspired by OLB?
Poster (1918) of the Dutch union for Woman Suffrage: "Let me in, I bring new light." (Image at top of this post)


Posted 11 March 2015 - 02:39 PM
On page 44 of the original manuscript, line 28-29, one and a half line is erased (made black) by the copyist. With some effort, one can read part of it: "... VPPA WAGAR FON THÉRE BURCH LJVD-...DA WRITTEN" (written on the walls of the burch Ljud-...).


The next page starts with an introduction of something that was written "INUT THA WÀGAR THÉRE WÁRABURCH, so it's not that the copyist started and then decided to wait for the next page. Did he leave out a part he didn't like or think important?

I'd say it looks like that.


13 March see blog post: "The Edge of the World", M. Pye ~ quotes



Posted 17 March 2015 - 03:59 PM
View PostPassing Time, on 17 March 2015 - 10:32 AM, said:
... and Frolle he sloh his fo
... here Fo = Foe , meaning enemy
Indeed, good find.
Yes whoever wrote the text about BUDA a.k.a. FO meant false, but that does not have to mean it only meant false.
Many words in OLB have several meanings.
The meanings false and foe are not that different.
So the name could have been interpreted by some as "false", by others as "foe".

I don't see why this is such a big deal. It's only important for Abramelin because it fits into his France-revolution theory.


25 March see blog post: FINDA WAS GÉL?


Posted 27 March 2015 - 03:30 PM
On page 72, copyist Hidde Oera Linda left four lines empty on top of the page.


The only possible explanation I can think of is that his original had an illustration there that he wanted to copy later, but in the end he never got to do it.


Posted 01 April 2015 - 09:15 AM
View PostPassing Time, on 31 March 2015 - 11:46 PM, said:
proto germanic druhtinaz
"Proto germanic" is nor was a language, although many reason as if it were.
It is a reconstruction.

1 April see blog post BIDROGA ~ betray, deceive, cheat


Posted 01 April 2015 - 03:49 PM
View PostThe Puzzler, on 01 April 2015 - 03:37 PM, said:
I don't think bidriv equates to bidriaga/bedrog
No, BIDRIV on itself is like Dutch noun "bedrijf" from verb "bedrijven" - to do, make, commit, perpetrate.

In combination with DROCHTEN, it is litterally something like the committing of idolatry.

Ottema and Sandbach interpreted this as "bedrog" and "deception" respectively.



Posted 02 April 2015 - 12:00 PM
Just some notes.

The common word for child (both singular and plural) in OLB is BÀRN or BERN. (See blog post.)

This word is still used in N-European languages:
barn (child, children) - norse, swedish, danish (plur. børn), icelandic (plur. börn)
bern (child, children) - frisian

But in one fragment the word KINDAR (children - German Kinder, Dutch kinderen) is used twice.

[126/29] Ljudgért
N.AST MIN KINDAR NAVT SJAN [...] THA.K SINA KINDAR WÉI.BROCH HÀV
Have you not seen my children? [...] because I have lost his children

In one fragment KINDLIK (kindly) is used:

[120/31] Ljudgért
AFTERNÉI KÉMER TO HIM. SÉR KINDLIK SNAKKANDE*
Later he came to him, speaking* very kindly

(* Note: snakke still means to talk in Norse. The word got lost in this meaning in Dutch and Frisian.)


2 April see blog post NG-letter ~ separate N-G ~ finger

08 April 2015

FINDA WAS GÉL?

(posted on forum 25 to 27 March)


A mistranslation by Ottema, copied by Sandbach.

[031/15-032/01] Minno
FÉLO SLACHTA FINDA.S SEND SNOD ENOCH.
MEN HJA SEND GÍRICH. HÁCH.FÁRANDE.
FALSK. VNKUS ÀND MORT.SJOCHTICH.


Ottema p.47:
Velen gelijken op Finda, * zijn schrander genoeg, 
maar zij zijn hebzuchtig, hovaardig, 
valsch, onkuisch en moordzuchtig.

Sandbach p.47:
Many are like Finda. They ** are clever enough, 
but they are too rapacious, haughty, 
false, immoral, and bloodthirsty.

* should be: Vele geslachten (stammen) van Finda...
** should be: Many of Finda's tribes ...

Jensma (2006):
Vele geslachten van Finda zijn slim genoeg,
maar ze zijn gierig, hoogvarend,
vals, onkuis en moordzuchtig.

###

Why Finda's people were not (only) our 'yellow' (Asian) race, but more likely (also) southeast-Mediterranean

The word GÉL (yellow) is used twice in the OLB (see below).

Variety in some modern and old languages:

geel - dutch
gelb - german
giallo - italian
giel - frisian
gult - icelandic
gul - danish, swedish, norwegian
yellow - english

gelo - oldsaxon, oldgerman
geolu, geolo - oldenglish
g(h)elu(w) - olddutch
gulr - oldnorse
helvus - latin

OLB fragments

[007/30] and Sandbach p.15
FINDA. WAS GÉL ÀND HJR HÉR SÁ THA MÀNNA ÉNER HORS.
Finda was yellow, and her hair was like the mane of a horse.

[167/25] and Sandbach p.227
VNDER ALLERLÉJA KÉREN IS.ER ÁK GOLDEN MANK.
ÀK GOLD.GÉLE APLE
HWÉR FON WELKE SÁ SWÉT ALS HÛNING SIND
ÀND WELKE SA WRANG ALS ÉK.

Among the various kinds of corn some is as yellow as gold.
There are also golden[-yellow] apples,
of which some are as sweet as honey
and others as sour as vinegar.


According to the 'Middledutch' Dictionary (Middelnederlandsch Woordenboek) that is about the period c.1250-c.1550, the original meaning was more like our 'blond':
"Yellow, the known colour, but the actual meaning is more that of our blond. 'Gelu haer' is in Middledutch the common word for what we call blond hair; the combination 'gelu blont' was also used."
(Original Dutch text: "Geel, de bekende kleur; doch de eig. bet. is meer nog die van ons blond. Gelu haer is het in 't mnl. gewone woord voor hetgeen wij blond haar noemen; ook vindt men gelu blont bijeengevoegd.")

Dr. Ottema wrote in his introduction to the OLB (1871), translated by Sandbach (1876):
"Irtha bore three daughters — Lyda, Finda, and Frya — the mothers of the three distinct races, black, yellow, and white — Africa, Asia, and Europe."

It is indeed tempting to assume that because Finda is described as "GÉL", Finda's people must be interpreted as what we call the "yellow" (Asian, i.e. Chinese, Japanese, Mongolian etc.) race.

There are however good reasons to reconsider this idea.
It is more likely that - at least in some of the fragments - Egyptians (or similar people from that area) were meant.

The strongest argument is the fragment below, but there is much more to say about this, which I will do later.

[057/13] Tünis & Inka
TÜNIS WILDE THRVCH THJU STRÉTE FON THA MIDDEL.SÉ VMBE TO FÁRANE
FÁR THA RIKA KANING FON ÉGIPTA LANDUM. LIK HI WEL ÉR DÉN HÉDE.
MEN INKA SÉIDE THAT.I SIN NOCHT HÉDE FON AL.ET FINDA.S.FOLK.


Sandbach p.81:
Teunis wished to sail through the straits to the Mediterranean Sea, 
and enter the service of the rich Egyptian king, as he had done before, 
but Inka said he had had enough of all those Finda's people.

###


View PostJan Ott, on 25 March 2015 - 09:08 PM, said:
... the rich Egyptian king [...] all those Finda's people.

Another fragment in which 'Finda's tribes' and the Egyptians are mentioned:

[051/17] about the invasion of eastern Scandinavia ('Skénland') by 'a people from the east' (Finns and Magyars) in ca. 2100 BCE
THAT FOLK NAS NAVT NE WILD LIK FÉLO SLACHTA FINDA.S
MEN É.LIK ANDA ÉGIPTA.LANDAR. HJA HÀVATH PRESTERA LIK THAM.
ÀND NW HJA KÀRKA HÀVE. ÁK BYLDON.

Sandbach p.73
They were not wild people, like most of Finda's race;
but, like the Egyptians, they have priests
and also statues in their churches.


More litterally:
That folk was not wild, like many of Finda's tribes,
but equal to the Égipta-landers. They have priests like them,
and now that they have churches, also statues [of idols].

Note: Jensma added a word between brackets in his translation, stressing the idea that the Magyars were of Finda's stock:
... zoals vele [andere] geslachten van Finda, ...
... like many [other] tribes of Finda, ...

Many other fragments about Finda's people point out that they had priests (and overly powerful kings), very much despised by the peoples of Frya.
I will show these in following posts.


###


View PostJan Ott, on 26 March 2015 - 01:50 PM, said:
... the idea that the Magyars were of Finda's stock

In another fragment, it is suggested that the Finns, who arrived in what is now Finland together with the Magyars, were also of Finda's people:

[045/24] from introduction to the alphabet page
VNDER HIRA TID HETH FINDA AK EN SKRIFT UTFVNDEN.
MEN THAT WÉRE SA HÁGFÁRANDE ÀND FVL MITH FRISLA ÀND KROLUM
THAT THA ÀFTERKVMANDA THÉROF THJU BITJVDNESE RING VRLÉREN HÀVE.
ÀFTERNÉI HÀVON HJA VS SKRIFT LÉRED
BINOMA THA FINNA. THA THYRJAR ÀND THA KRÉKA.LANDAR.

Sandbach p.65
In her time Finda also invented a mode of writing,
but that was so high-flown and full of flourishes
that her descendants have soon lost the meaning of it.
Afterwards they learned our writing—
that is, the Finns, the Thyriers, and the Krekalanders


One could believe that the ancient Finns were somewhat 'Asian', but to suppose the Tyrians (now Libanon) and Greeks were as well, makes no sense. They were more probably east-Mediterranean. Not black, not white, but somewhere in between; what Frya's people might have called GÉL ('yellow' or light brown).


###

Besides the two copyist letters (Hidde and Liko 'Oera Linda'), the most recent part of the OLB is the part about Black Adel a.k.a. Askar.

In this part which is dated ca. 50 BCE, the Finda's people were still considered to be the biggest threat to the peoples of Frya:

[202/27]
WR.ALDA SÉIDE HJU HÉDE HJA THRVCH THONGAR TO HROPA LÉTA
THAT ALLET FRIAS FOLK MOSTON FRJUNDA WERTHA.
LIK SUSTAR ÀND BROTHAR TÁMED.
OWERS SKOLDE FINDAS FOLK KVMA ÀND RA ALLE FON JRTHA VRDILLIGJA.

Sandbach p.243
Wr-alda, she said, had told her by his thunder
that all the Frya's people must become friends,
and united as brothers and sisters,
otherwise Finda's people would come and sweep them off the face of the earth.


[203/09]
FORTH MOTON ALLE VPSTONDA ÀND ET FINDA.S FOLK FON FRIAS ERV DRÍVA.
NILLATH HJA THAT NAVT NE DVA ALSA SKILUN HJA SLÁVONA BENDA VMBE HJARA HALSA KRÉJA.
ALSA SKILUN THA VRLANDASKA HÉRA HJARA BERN MISBRUKA ÀND FYTRA LÉTA
TILTHJU THÀT BLOD SÍGATH INNA JOWRE GRÉVA.

Sandbach p.245
They must all rise up and drive Finda's people out of Frya's inheritance [or: territory].
If you will not do that, you will bring the [get] slave-chains round your necks,
and the foreign chiefs will ill-treat [or: abuse] your children and flog them
till the blood streams into your graves.


We all know what was the biggest threat to northern Europe around the year zero.
It was not Asians but Romans; Mediterranean people.
This is another indication that with 'Finda's people' not Asians (our so-called 'yellow race') was meant.


###

Minno, the sea-king, seer and philosopher who gave laws to the people of Crete, said this about the Finda's tribes and their kings and priests:

[031/28] about their kings
THÉRA. HWAM.HIS GÁST THÀT LESTIGOSTE SY. ÀND THÉRTRVCH STERIK.
THAM.HIS HÔNE KRÉIATH KÉNING. 

ÀND THA ÔRA MOTON ALWENNA AN SIN WELD VNDER.WURPEN WÉSA
Sandbach p.47 (poor translation)
Whoever is the most crafty 
crows over the others, 
and tries to make them submit to him

More litterally:
The one who's mind [or spirit] is most cunning and thus strong,
his 'rooster crows king' [i.e. he will rule] 
and the others must always be submitted to his power.

[033/14]
DÁHWILA WI TO DVANDE SEND EKKORUM TO SKÁDANE
KVMTH.ET NIDIGE FOLK FINDA.S MITH HJARA FALSKA PRESTERUM
JVW HÀWA TO RÁWANDE JVWA TOGHATERA TO SKÀNDANE.
JVWA SÉDA TO VRDVA ÀND TO THA LESTA
KLÀPPATH HJA SLÁVONA.BANDA OM JAHWELIKES FRYA HALS.

Sandbach p.49
while you are injuring each other
the spiteful Finda's people with their false priests come
and attack your ports [rob your possessions], ravish [i.e. rape] your daughters,
corrupt your morals, and at last
throw the bonds of slavery over every freeman's [i.e. 'Frya'] neck.


###

More thoughts from Minno about the people of Finda and their laws:

[031/18]:
POGA BLÉSATH HJARA SELVA VPPA. 
ÀND HJA NE MÜGATH NAWET THÀN KRUPA.
FORSKA HROPATH WÀRK . WÀRK. 

ÀND HJA NE DVATH NAWET AS HIPPA ÀND KLUCHT MÁKJA.
THA ROKA HROPATH SPÁR . SPÁR. 

MEN HJA STÉLON ÀND VRSLYNATH AL WAT VNDER HJARA SNAVELA KVMATH.
LIK ALTHAM IS THÀT FINDAS.FOLK.
HJA BOGATH IMMER OVIR GODA ÉWA.
EK WIL SETMA MÁKJA VMB.ET KWÁD TO WÉRANE.
MEN SELVA NIL NIMMAN THÉR AN BONDEN WÉSA.

Sandbach p.47
The toad blows himself out, 
but he can only crawl.
The frog cries "Work, work;" 

but he can do nothing but hop and make himself ridiculous.
The raven [i.e. rook] cries "Spare, spare;" 

but he steals and wastes everything that he gets into his beak.
Finda's people are just like these.
They say a great deal about making good laws,
and every one wishes to make regulations against misconduct,
but does not wish to submit to them himself.


[040/03]
THACH MIN ÀJN WITHER FARA TO LÉTANDE.
SA WIL.K MITH THESA SKÉDNESA ALLÉNA SÉZA.
THAT WI NAVT MÜGE HÉMA MITH ET FINDAS FOLK FON WÉR THAT ET SY.
HWAND THÀT HJA FVL SEND MITH FALSKA.RENKA.
ÉWA TO FRÉSANE AS HJARA SWETE WINA MITH DÉJANDE FENIN.

Sandbach p.59
Leaving alone, then, my own adventures,
I will conclude this history by saying
that we must not have anything to do with Finda's people, wherever it may be,
because they are full of false tricks,
fully as much to be feared as their sweet wine with deadly poison.


More about the laws of the Finda people (benefitting only the priests and kings, i.e. the upper class), from the introduction to the 'rules/ laws and regulations' (of the Frya people), author unknown:

[040/28]:
THÀT FOLK FINDA.S HETH ÁK SETMA ÀND DOMAR.
MEN THISSA NE SEND NAVT NÉI THA RJUCHT.
MEN ALLÉNA TO BATA THÉRA PRESTERA ÀND FORSTA.
THANA SEND HJARA STÁTA IMMERTHE FVL TISPALT ÀND MORD.

Sandbach p.59
The people of Finda have also their rules and regulations,
but these are not made according to what is just—
only for the advantage of priests and princes
therefore their states are [always] full of disputes and murder.


###

Most interestingly, some properties of the Finda priesthoods are described in the second part of the 'oldest doctrine' (FORM.LÉR):

[100/02]
EMONG FINDA.S FOLK SEND WAN.WÍSA.
THÉR THRVCH HJARA OVER.FINDINGRIKHÉD AL SA ÀRG SEND EWRDEN
THÀT HJA HJARA SELVA WIS MÁKJA ÀND THA INEWIDA BITJUGA
THÀT HJA THET BESTA DÉL SEND FON WR.ALDA.
THET HJARA GÁST THET BESTE DÉL IS FON WR.ALDA.S GÁST
ÀND THET WR.ALDA ALLÉNA MÉI THÀNKJA THRVCH HELPE HJAR.IS BRYN.

Sandbach p.139
Among Finda's people there are false teachers [i.e. 'vain-wise'],
who, by their over-inventiveness, have become so wicked
that they make themselves and their adherents [i.e. the laymen] believe
that they are the best part of Wr-alda,
that their spirit is the best part of Wr-alda's spirit,
and that Wr-alda can only think by the help of their brains.


[100/21] and Sandbach p.139
MEN FINDAS FOLK IS EN ÀRG FOLK.
HWAND AFSKÉN THA WAN.WÍSA THÉRA.
HJARA SELVA WIS MÁKJA THÀT HJA DROCHTNE SEND.
SA HÀVON HJA TO FÁRA THA VN.EWIDA FALXA DROCHTNE.ESKÉPEN.
TO KÉTHANDE ALLER WÉIKES THÀT THISSA DROCHTNE WRALDA ESKÉPEN HÀVE.
MITH AL HWAT THÉR INNE IS. ~

Finda's people are a wicked people,
for although they [the 'vain-wise' of them] presumptuously
pretend among themselves that they are gods,
they proclaim the unconsecrated false gods,
and declare everywhere that these idols created the world
and all that therein is—

GÍRIGA DROCHTNE FVL NÍD ÀND TORN.
THAM ÉRATH ÀND THJANATH WILLATH WÉSA. THRVCH THA MÀNNISKA. 

THÉR BLOD ÀND OFFER WILLA ÀND SKÀT ASKJA. ~
greedy idols, full of envy and anger,
who desire to be served and honoured by the people,
and who exact [or: demand] bloody sacrifices and rich offerings;

MEN THI WAN.WISA FALXA MANNA
THAM HJARA SELVA GODIS SKALKA JEFTHA PRESTERA NOMA LÉTA.
BÜRATH ÀND SÁMNATH ÀND GETTHATH ALDAM TOFARA DROCHTNE
THÉRER NAVT NE SEND VMBET SELVA TO BIHALDANDE.

but these presumptuous ['vain-wise'] and false men,
who call themselves God's servants and priests,
receive and collect everything in the name of the idols
that have no real existence, for their own benefit.

ALDAM BIDRÍWATH HJA MITH EN RUM EMOD.
THRVCHDAM HJA HJARA SELVA DROCHTNE WÁNE
THÉR AN NINMAN ANDERT SKELDICH NE SEND.

They do all this with an easy conscience,
as they think themselves gods
not answerable to any one.

SEND THÉR SVME THAM HJARA RENKA FRODA ÀNDET BÁR MAKJA
ALSA WRDON HJA THRVCH HJARA RAKKERA FÀT ÀND VMBIRA LASTER VRBARNAD
ELLA MITH FÉLO STÁTSKA PLÉGUM HJARA FALXA DROCHTNE TO.N ÉRE.
MEN IN TRVTH. ALLÉNA THÉRVMBE THÀT HJA.RA NAVT SKÁDA NE SKOLDE.

If there are some who discover their tricks and expose them,
they hand them over to the executioners to be burnt for their calumnies,
with solemn ceremonies in honour of the false gods;
but really in order to save themselves.


Posted Image


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A fragment suggesting that to be considered of Finda's blood is more about someones behavior, than about skincolour (or actual descent):

[043/25]
SAHWERSA THÉR ÉNIS IMMAN WÉRE. SÁ ÀRG
THÀT I VS GVNG VRRÉDE BY THA FYAND. 

PÁDA ÀND TO PÁDA WÉS. VMBE VSA FLÍBURGA TO NAKA 
JEFTHA THES NACHTIS THÉRIN TO GLUPA
THAM WÉRE ALLÉNA WROCHT UT FINDA.S BLOD.


Sandbach p.63 (poor translation)
If any man should prove a traitor
and show to our enemies 

the paths leading to our places of refuge, 
or creep into them by night,
he must be the offspring of Finda;


More literally:
If someone once were so evil,
that he would betray us to the enemy,
show (them) paths and access roads that lead to our 'fleeburghs' (hidden strongholds),
or to creep into them by night,
then he were only wrought of Finda's blood.


###

Some other fragments suggest that Finda's land was situated more in the east and that at least some Finda peoples looked more Mongolian (Tartars).

[136/11] Buda a.k.a. Krisen etc
IN.T HIRTE FON FINDA.S LÁND VPPET BERCHTA 
LÉID EN DEL THÉR IS KÉTHEN KASAMÍR.
Sandbach p.185
In the heart of Findasland, upon a mountain, 
lies a plain called Kasamyr (Cashmere)

[157/07] Adel
THA TARTARA IS EN BRUN FINDAS FOLK
Sandbach p.213
The Tartars are a brown tribe of Finda's people

[204/03] Adel
THA TARTARA SEND EN DÉL FON FINDA.S SLACHTE
Sandbach p.245
The Tartars are a branch of Finda's race

But these fragments are relatively recent, so the concept may have changed, or it simply differed between the various authors.

Posted Image


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View PostJan Ott, on 26 March 2015 - 07:04 PM, said:
Some other fragments suggest that Finda's land was situated more in the east ...

Ljudgért was a Gértman from Punjab, who came to Fryasland with Friso's fleet, ca. 300 BCE, and became friends with Fréthorik Oera Linda.

Posted Image

He wrote about the people of north-west India:

[163/29]:
VNDER THA HINDOS ÀND ÔTHERA UT.A LÔNDUM
SIND WELKA LJUDA MANK THÉR AN STILNISE BÍ MALKÔRUM KVMA.
SE GELÁVATH THET SE VNFORBASTERE BERN FINDA.S SIND.
SE GELÁVATH THET FINDA FONUT.ET HIMMEL.LÀJA BERTA BERN IS.
HVANÁ SE MITH HJARA BERN NÉI THA DELTA JEFTHA LÉGTE TOGEN IS. ~
WELKE VNDER THAM GELÁVATH THET SE MITH HJRA BERN
VPPET SKUM THER HÉLIGE GONGG.À DEL GONGGEN IS.
THÉRVMBE SKOLDE THI RUN.STRÁME HÉLIGE GONGG.À HÉTA.

Sandbach p.221
Among the Hindoos and others out of these countries
there are people who meet together secretly [in silence].
They believe that they are pure [unbasτardised] children of Finda,
and that Finda was born in the Himmellaia mountains,
whence she went with her children to the [delta or] lowlands.
Some of them believe that she, with her children,
floated down upon the foam of the [holy] Ganges,
and that that is the reason why the river is called the Sacred Ganges [holy 'Gongg-à'].

Quote
In Hinduism, the river Ganges is considered sacred and is personified as a goddess known as Ganga. (wiki)

Posted Image

The Ganges (or Ganga) indeed descends from the Himalayas.

Ljudgért (and the other people of Frya's) who had heard about this river goddess tradition may have interpreted it as being about Finda.

The Hindus themselves may never actually  have used that name.